how can you increase shot speed? which is better shot speed or shot selection??

The Greatest, Muhammed Ali, increased his hand-speed by punching, endlessly, under water; 360 degree resistance -- that's probably good for the muscles --- attempting to be 'focused but not fused'; aware and relaxed without being attached, will increase your reaction time, which will increase your overall speed --- realizing that hand and foot speed without complete control is a damaging and potentially hazardous to one's self --- and realize that very often 'speed is used to mask poor technique' and poor technique is poor technique, not matter how fast it is.

A great post, Mr. Shaneyfelt.   Very interesting...

 

I guess playing Foos underwater could be tough (the ball might keep floating away!), but I have been thinking about how to use some dumbells to help with shot strengthening. 

 

I too have been wondering about some tips to help increase speed. I've even thought of stopping in a Martial Arts place to ask how they turn correct-but-slowly-executed moves into effectively fast actions. I know the accepted anxiom is "the speed will come", but I think you have to make the goal of HIGH-SPEED part of the equation early in the process...

 

Proper technique. Now that is the rub, in my most humble of opines...

 

I heard Todd (Yep, THAT Todd) comparing different grips on the handle to that of a baseball player's on the bat. And I've wondered about that for a long time... You see so many different batting stances in the baseball Major Leagues; open, closed, high held bat, bat moving, bat stock still, and even the mind-boggling contortionism of that freak Craig Council.  There doesn't seem to be a "right way" for those guys...

 

*JUST A GET IT DONE ANY WAY THAT WORKS FOR YOU PHILOSOPHY*

 

In Foosball we have the different shots, the different grips, close-hand, open-hand, stick and brush, far and near...the list goes on and on. You can find the exception to every rule in Foosball, and I think if the sport had a much bigger playing base, say...like baseball's, we'd see the open-handed  Push-shot Champion from Hell who never has to pinch the ball out of the "sweet spot". Or something akin to that iconoclasm in another form.

 

I threw the discus in high-school, and I used to check out an older book from the school library on Field Event Techniques. There were two reviews in the book by different Coaches of two better know Olympic caliber discus throwers. They used pictures of the throwers from film as they threw in a "stop motion" type, frame-by-frame critique. The Coach who dissected the first thrower admitted to "sweating through" his review, saying the guy had REALLY bad form and probably could throw the discus nearly as far without the turning motion in the circle and by just using brute force. Not very complimentary of the thrower's technique in the least...

 

The athlete he was talking about was Al Oerter. One of only two Olympic Athlete's to win the same event FOUR OLYMPICS IN A ROW. And Oerter was the favorite to win it again when America boycotted the Moscow Games, or he probably would have won for the fifth games in a row...

 

Four straight Olympiads winning a gold medal...bad form and all. 

 

Sometimes it's easy to get caught up in the emulation of the current best competitors in Foosball, but I think that something special about the game is being lost if we all try to be the same player...

 

 

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"I can only hope to imagine..."

i have tried several technique to improve shot speed the one i like best is to use the rubber bumper (make sure the bumper slides on the rod). set up a pull shot and then slide the rubber bumper to the wall this will help your take off speed and your pulling speed. after you do this it takes awhile to get your timing back on your long pull shot. i usually shoot around 100 shots with the bumper once a week. i don't know if this would work with the snake.

the second method is to use the rod locks on the 3 man rod and 2 man rod put the rod lock in such a place so you can shoot a full pull shot. what this does is make you pull the 3 and 2 man rods to shoot the shot so you have more weight to pull this will increase your lateral speed. also the rod lock snaps on the rod and this creates resistance to hitting the ball forward this will help increase forward ball hitting power and speed.  

i recently saw a show on TLC (the learning channel) that discussed speed in the martial arts. they said kung fu (chinese based) was based on hand and striking speed they also showed that the fastest human test that they did was 27.1 mph (40'/sec => 480"/sec ) with a punch (this was measured with a high speed camera).  the full stroke dead man pull shot is around 10" but most people shoot at 8" - 9" square or spray. if you could start your pull at full speed instead of from a dead stop the max time would be around .0208 sec. for a 10" shot. i have measured several shots with a camcorder (30 frames per second) and the fastest i have seen is around 4 - 5  frames (.166 sec) for a pull shot (this is average velocity). i guess part of the question is where someone would obtain full speed on their pull shot what is the velocity curve 0 - 480"/s. improving the start velocity or the acceleration and the max velocity would be great and would seem to be the area to attack for improvement. 

anyways the  technique behind the kung fu was the leg stance and using the leg to start the motion of the punch. this would allow the arm to strike with the speed mentioned. simple body mechanics. look at what tiger woods does with his legs in his golf swing same technique. the problem is that there is no easy way to incorporate the legs into a pull shot with out giving a tell on your shot( a push shot is much easier to incorporate the legs).  maybe the use of the upper arm and shoulder to start the movement then the forearm and wrist to finish the shot. kind of like the concept of nun chucks more speed with the end of the wood on a chain.

just some thoughts

bruce

 

Well, Speed is also a function, unfortunately,  of muscle type and some people are born with more of the wanted "athletic" type of muscle than others. I will say this: try to use more of your forearm and less of the upper arm to limit motion. This will help with accuracy a lttle as well. And hey, if all else fails try timing shots....

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Even a blind squirrel gets a nut once in a while!!

Try wrist weights. Start light, then increase the weight as you increase ability to accurately shoot the hole. Builds speed,form, and accuracy.

 

Kinda like using 3 baseball bats while you're on deck warming up. Can't use it for Snake shots.

Read these

http://foosworld.com/forum/forums/post/11254.aspx
http://foosworld.com/forum/forums/post/11253.aspx

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Do The Math, Learn To Swim!!!

wrist weights are great but the statement above is correct in that weights improve strength and power not speed. fast muscle and speed go hand in hand  good article to read: scientific american 9/01/2000.  actually this article i think says that  a couch potato is faster.

Making a motion a muscle memory allows for the most efficient and fast shot this way the muscle knows what to do (kind of like pre-programmed) 

I am 42 an still have a strong and fast pull. In 2000 in Vegas I held the speed record all weekend for pull shots.

To get ready for an event I used to start about 30 days out and  put a bungee cord around the black 2 and black 5 on the ouutside of the table, come over the top and stretch the bungee over the far yellow figure head (you may have to use the middle figure depending on the length of the bungee) making sure that there is enough stretch that the full stroke can be made.

Practice just the full stroke stroke,  the full length length.  DO NOT use a ball - it will destroy your timing.

Do this workout for 10 minute intervals to start, each week extend the amount of time you workout.  Stop the workout portion about 7-10 before a tournament.

Do the same thing for left arm on five bar or two hands on five for defensive workouts.

This would be my suggestion for working on speed.

Monday:          Five bar 30 minutes     2 bar passing 30 min      3 bar shooting 30 minutes      3 bar workout 10 minutes   

Tuesday          Five bar 30 minutes     2 bar shooting 30 min     3 bar shooting 30 minutes      Defense Workout 10 minutes

Wednesday     Five bar 30 minutes     2 bar passing 30 min      3 bar shooting 30 minutes      3 bar workout 10 minutes

Thrsday           Five bar 30 minutes     2 bar shooting 30 min     3 bar shooting 30 minutes      Defense Workout 10 minutes

Friday             Five bar 30 minutes      2 bar passing 30 min      3 bar shooting 30 minutes      3 bar workout 10 minutes

 
I wish I would have had this type of dedication to to the physical game back when I was 20 or so, I might have had greater success.

Good luck to all you young guns. 

 

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Living in the past - waiting for the future.

you said you had the fastest pull shot.  what was your speed for the long pull. how did they measure the speed?

thanks

bruce

I've never been to a tournament where they clock your shot.  Do they measure lateral speed, or just the velocity of the ball traveling into the goal?

This took place at the 2000 Hall of Fame Classic in Vegas 

One guy had a table set up the had the Black goalie rods out and an electronic box with 2 eyes that measured the elapsed time between the eyes. So it was measuring velocity. However his rules dictated that the ball had to be moved the width of the goal to count as a Pull or push. So in essence it was a "Pull Shot" even though the measurement was velocity.

 If I remember the results were reported in the April 2000 Issue of Table Talk.  I think my speed was reported as 28.  I don't remember if that was MPH or FPS.

The Categories competed for were Front: 3bar - Pull, Push  Back: 2 bar - Pull, Push

I wish he could have set up two measurements; one for velocity and one for lateral. I would be interested in my lateral speed as well. I guess the contest should have been call hardest shot instead of fastest.

I won a T-shirt for holding the record for the week-end.

I won 35 and Over with Ronnie Joyner that year.

It was a great tourney - they even had massage chairs set up and a message was $10 for 15 minutes.

 

Jenx
 

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Living in the past - waiting for the future.

where were the photo eyes placed? between the 3 rod and goal? and how far apart from each other where they? they might have been trying to only measure max velocity which means they would have to have placed them where they thought max velocity was thought to happen. i would be interested in reading the article in table talk. do you know who might have a copy that could send me a copy.

 

thanks

bruce

Jenx,  I am having trouble understanding what you are talking about.  Over the past 6 months, I have been practicing (usually alone) for about 6-7 hours a week.  Over the past month, it has been about 8-15 hours because I now have a coin-op at home.  I do most of my practice by 5-3-execution, shooting the shot(s) that I may be practicing maybe 100 times each.  I also work passes from D - 5bar and goalie shots.  My shots of choice are the pull (I love hitting the small middle hole but go long when available), euro and snake.  I can't imagine being faster on the pull but I know it can be done.  I would really like to be faster on my long pull/push euro, as when I practice I go for accuracy and execution because I feel that speed comes with time and what good is speed if you can't recoil and/or cutback a deadbar shot or a split shot?  So, do you have any suggestions on getting the speed on a euro and pull or could you better clarify your comments earlier?  Thanks man, its much appreciated.

Shot selection in my humble opinion is much more valuable than speed.  I've never had the fastest pull shot but with intelligent shot selection you can "work" the goalie into your game.  Speed is no good if your selecting the wrong shot or lane to shoot in.  However you can time the correct shot.  I will always stick with my pull shot even though my #2 shot is a snake (wristrocket)  Also I have other shots in the bag but my pull is the most accurate.  The snake is much faster but I'm really just guessing or going to the most probable hole.  I can really depend on my not as fast pull shot to get me through a match or tourney.  Not to say that someone else doesn't feel the exact opposite with their snake over a pull but your probably going to feel the most accurate w/ your primary shot.  The first 3 tourneys I ever played in were with Johnny Horton and I feel I learned alot by watching him hit timing pulls all day long.  I also learned with Tom Yore, Chris Starczewski, Ron Nevois, and Casey Pruitt.  My defense style comes from Bob Diaz.  All of these players shot a pull shot except Diaz who primarily shoots a snake.  So I was surrounded by multiple world class pull shots in the infancy of my career.  I also went on a Tommy Tour (adkisson) for a summer and as fast as his pull is he thought it was SLOW.  Shot Selection MUST BE KEY.  In my humble opinion.  Would I want to be faster SURE but not at the cost of accuracy.                      Peace Out, Joe Rod